Award winning Bangkok-based Italian chefs-cum-entrepreneurs Luca Appino and Michele Fernando talk about what it takes to be among the world's best pizza makers
Last weekend, the food aficionados in the Capital got a rare and unique opportunity to savour authentic Italian pizzas in a pop-up event put up by Luca Appino and Michele Fernando. The Italian restaurateur and chef duo, based in Bangkok, Thailand, were at Piano Piano, Sanepa representing the award winning Massilia Italian restaurant, one of the go-to spots for pizza and Italian food lovers in Bangkok.
Appino, who first went to Bangkok Italy in 2004 as an employee to open a restaurant, has since 2007 opened his own eateries there including Pizza Massilia, La Bottega Bangkok, and Vesper Bar, to name a few.
Meanwhile, Fernando joined Massilia in 2017 after working in countries across Europe as a chef, and is working as its Head Chef/Pizzaiolo. During the two-day event (May 3-4), he served three varieties of pizzas here - Norma Not Normal, Burrata E Cullatello, and Four Cheese Explosion.
On their second visit here, the duo in a brief conversation with The Himalayan Times' Sharada Adhikari shared about the art of making pizza, business in Thailand, and spreading Italian pizza culture across cultures and places:
Interview has been edited for clarity and brevity
What is Pizza Massilia?
Appino: Pizza Massilia was born as a pizza truck in Bangkok. We opened it in 2014 serving pizza as street food. It was the first street food restaurant in Thailand that was not serving Thai food. Then we became famous. After a while pizza experts like Michele joined us. And our success began from there. We have travelled all around Asia. We have been to 15 countries. We have been cooking for people all around South East Asia. We have won a lot of different awards - Pizza of the Year Asia Pacific 2025, Best Pizza in Thailand for five years in a row. We are on the list of World's 50 Best Pizza - last year we were at number 49 (on the list).
Fernando: I was not there when it opened. It (pizza truck) was a success after it opened and then they decided to open a restaurant at the end of 2015 /16. I joined after a year.
What is pizza for you?
Fernando: I come from the land of pizza. I grew up with pasta and pizza. We used to eat pizza two-three times a week. For me no pizza means no life. There must be pizza and pasta for me.
I have grown up with my grandmother Angelica making dough. She taught me to make bread and pizza.
To work with yeast for pizza and to work with pasta is different. Pasta will always have the same recipe. But if you don't grow the yeast in the right way, the dough will be different everytime. If you just mess up one step, the result will be different.So, this is quite a challenge to make a good pizza. You have to pay attention from the very beginning - you have to follow the process and see if your baby is growing up good. So, you have to take care of it continuously, time after time, day by day.
Appino: As Italian pizza is what you want to eat every day while growing up. So, pizza for us is 'The Food'. When you are a kid, you want to eat pizza - seven times, seven days a week. Pizza is everything for us - just after water, it is pizza for us.
Then pizza is also opportunity and responsibility.
It's opportunity because pizza is such an important food and beverage business that you can bring as a businessman or entrepreneur, especially to South East Asia. Everybody appreciates, and likes pizza.
It is responsibility because pizza is the most abused dish of the planet - abused in the sense that they make pizza with everything. Around the world you can find pizza even with cheese that is not coming from milk. They put toppings that do not exist in the tradition. Pizza bases are even made like that of cake. They say, 'Let's make some round pizza bread, put some tomato, put some cheese and this is the pizza.' But, no it is not pizza.
Pizza is a balance of raw material, quality, quantity, expertise and knowledge. It is the most difficult dish of Italian cuisine. To make good pizza that you can digest, enjoy, appreciate and really call it pizza, it is not enough for you to have one, two or three years of experience.
For that you need food memory, the knowledge of the product, the culture of what and how to do it.
So, pizza for me is a very important dish of my entire life. And we need to take responsibility to export it at a very high standard. It is our responsibility as Italian entrepreneurs.
How do you connect with the pizza that your grandmother made and the one you make today?
Fernando: Hers was made in a more traditional way with homemade products, and topping. But now pizza has evolved. There is science behind the pizza today - we have the process of fermentation, leavening and things like this. Now it is completely different.
Before was good - they did certain things but they didn't know why they did that. Now we know why that process is followed. So, pizza at present is little bit different.
Before there was only the knowledge of what was outside. Now there is the knowledge of what is outside and what is inside. And the result is we have evolved, and it has to always evolve.
Appino: In the old days our grandmothers, mothers, family made pizza with the same recipe; it was the same for 100 years. The contemporary pizza is challenging to make - in terms of quality, fermentation, and leavening. They are changing the recipe every two-three years so that it is easy to eat and digest. There is update because the Italian pizza chef community has taken (it as) their responsibly to develop good product, good food and good original pizza.
How do you maintain the Italian authenticity of pizza in Bangkok?
Fernando: For me, the food must be good. In the case of pizza and pasta, originality has to be there - it has to be 100 per cent Italian. As such we use 90 per cent of products, except for the local vegetables, from Europe and Italy - tomato sauce, mozzarella, flowers, and the toppings.
For us the 'Italianity' is very important. It is like a stamp needed to certify your work.
Could you share the story of how pizza started as food in Italy?
Appino: Italian pizza was born as the street food in little road of Naples. The Neapolitan bakers created round pizza bread disc and they served two days for piers workers only with pork fat (strutto).
This was the food - if you were very poor, if you were in the very low level of society, you would go for one piece of bread with pork fat on it. In the beginning it was not even baked, it was fried to make it fast. So you could buy bread with pork fat. Or if you had little more money, it would be served with white bite fish. This was very simple food.
It became a popular dish, everybody ate and enjoyed it. Then it started developing - it was baked, then tomato was put on it, and then mozzarella...
When you are very low income family in Italy, in the old days when you go out to eat, you could only afford pizza. You go out, eat pizza and coke and go back home. It was like a food for folk. And then it became one of the best appreciated foods in planet because there is everything in it - carbs, fat (healthy fat) cheese, tomatoes, protein ...
Please share your equation as a team.
Appino: It has been fantastic. We work together very good. Michele has been our valuable chef since eight, nine years. There is always challenge between us because when we want to change something, he always complains. I push and he makes the changes, it's fantastic. He is like my second wife, always complaining. But as long as it is good food, he can do whatever he wants in the kitchen. It is not smart that I employee a chef and tell him what to do.
Fernando: He is funny. Sometimes he is challenging, and it is normal. I am more traditional and he is someone who is forward-thinking. So, sometimes we have to find the way in the middle.
Please share your experience of this pop-up event here.
Appino: It is very nice. We love Nepal. In Italy and Nepal, we both like quality food. I found that they really focus on quality and raw materials during production here. You really love the good food in Nepal.
Fernando: Technically, it (making pizza in Kathmandu) was a bit difficult, because you don't have the right equipment here. With the tools here, you can make, let's say 10 pizzas per hour. We use our tools to make 50/60 pizzas per hour. That is a huge difference. Technically talking, it is not good business wise if you do not have the right equipment. Quality-wise, cheese here is okay.
But if you want to sell authentic Italian, then you should have everything Italian. You cannot go local. So, I brought many ingredients with me to make the pizzas - Burrata E Culatello and Norma not Normal - from Bangkok.
Your message for aspiring chefs.
Fernando: If you love to make your hands dirty, and be dirty from morning to night, and be tired, this is the job for you. If you don't, change it because you will be frustrated, sad, and tired. But if you love to do this, then there are no worries, stress.
Appino: First thing, go to work in the farm for six months. Cooking is the process where you will take raw materials, modify it and create a dish for customers. If you do not know where your dish is coming from, you can't cook.
Develop deep knowledge of raw materials. Develop your taste memory. After you develop a strong taste memory, jump in a team where you can learn, but not to make money. After that develop your vision - when you have a clear vision of what you want to do, then you can become a chef.
It is a long process. Becoming a chef is just the hand of the long career of sacrifice, working... there is lot of fear. Don't become chef for money, but for love of food and patience.
Pizza perfect
Chef Michele Fernando talks about his two creations - Norma Not Normal and Burrata E Culatello:
Norma Not Normal
It won the Pizza of the Year in Asia Pacific in 2025. We use eggplant cream for it - it is made with baked eggplant, sun dried tomato, garlic, salt, pepper, and other seasonings. Then you have eggplants that are deep fried like chips, and dried ricotta which is shredded after cooking fresh.
Burrata E Culatello
For this, tomato sauce (Italian), and culatello - the king of cold cuts in Italy - is used. Fresh sliced cold cuts and burrata - creamy mozzarella - are used to make this pizza.
