Lakshmi Puri came to Kathmandu for the first time in 1955 as a three-year-old with her parents. She recalls learning dance and Nepali the (language), while also soaking in the rich Nepali heritage. She was here for the second time in 1998, and her recent visit - to the Kalinga Literary Festival Kathmandu 2024 - was her third detour here. This time she was accompanied by her successful legacy - an experience of working for 28 years with the Indian Foreign Service (IFS) as a diplomat. She represented India in different countries including Japan, and Sri Lanka. She was in Geneva doing multilateral work with the Indian mission dealing with the UN. She was the ambassador to Hungary, and Bosnia-Herzegovina. After that she joined the UN, where she remained for 15 years - as Director of the flagship International Trade Division of UNCTAD, later as Assistant Secretary General of the United Nations, and as the founding Deputy Executive Director of UN WOMEN. The recipient of the Eleanor Roosevelt Prize for Human Rights, Puri has contributed to UN's major projects on peace and security, sustainable development, climate change, human rights, and humanitarian action.
The multi-faceted personality walked down the memory lane with Sharada Adhikari as she shared vignettes of her childhood days here while also talking about her debut novel Swallowing the Sun and the Naari Shakti (woman/female power) that she believes in.
The interview has been edited for brevity and clarity. Excerpts from the interview:
How did it feel to be back in Kathmandu after nearly 25 years?
It was very emotional. When I was an Indian diplomat, I was in charge of multilateral and economic relations and we were trying to form a grouping of India, Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh. I was in Kathmandu for that in 1998. I haven't been here since. But over the years, I've had wonderful friends amongst Nepali diplomats and ambassadors. So, I got to meet all of them, but that is one part of the story.
The other part is about my parents - I came to Nepal as a little girl, three years old in 1955. My father was a legal advisor to king Tribhuvan and then king Mahendra for seven years. He drafted the constitution at that time and contributed to laying the foundation for the Nepali legal system. Many people have told me he was very popular with the Nepalis. Everybody loved him. Nobody wanted him to leave. Normally, you go to a place, you're there for three years. But the Nepali government kept asking the Indian government to extend his stay. That's how he stayed on for seven years.
I began my academic education here and we lived in what used to be one of the palaces of Pashupati Rana - the building in Jawalakhel, which is now the national academy of administration (Nepal Administrative Staff College). I visited that place, and also my school, St Mary's. It had just opened around the time when I was about five years old.
I also visited the Pashupatinath Temple, Patan ... and memories of my childhood with my parents came back.
Has Kathmandu inspired Swallowing the Sun?
The inspiration is my father and mother. They spent seven precious years dedicated to Nepal and Kathmandu, and it is something wonderful. So, in that sense there is inspiration; but Kathmandu as a place does not figure in the novel. It's going to feature in my next novel.
There are so many connections between Gwalior (India) and Nepal, to the royal families. My eldest sister was married to a Nepali and has written one of the path-breaking books on Nepali monarchy. One of my cousins in Gwalior was married to a Rana girl. So there are lots of familial inter-linkages. That Gwalior family is referred to in the book. In that sense, indirectly, there is a very strong Nepal flavour and connection in the book.
Do you remember your childhood here?
I remember the beautiful and fragrant rukh kamal tree (magnolia). I have vivid memories of waking up to the roar of lions because the zoo seemed quite close then. I remember going to the Pashupatinath Temple, the Bagmati River, trips to Chandragiri hills to get a view of the mountains, Everest and all the other mountains. I have memories of how Nepalis celebrated the different Hindu festivals.
There used to be so many snakes everywhere. Once, my two-year-old nephew and I (seven) were playing with a ball in the garden. I left him for a little while to pick up the ball. And you know what? A snake was slithering around him. But because he was a baby, he was not disturbed at all. He was playing with it. I couldn't utter a word, my mouth was open but no sound came out. I was completely frozen. Only when the snake slithered away did I scream. At that time I think there were flying snakes too.
How do you remember the king, queen and BP Koirala?
There was the Durbar Hall in our house where we hosted dinner parties to which the king and queen came. They seemed like distant figures, but pleasant. Sushila Koirala was someone who I was in constant contact with as my dance teacher. But BP Koirala was someone who my father and mother met. I just have a memory of him being a very literary person. He was a very well-spoken and gentle person. My father was very fond of him and got along very well with him.
How did you get into dancing?
My mother was very culturally oriented and she believed her daughters must not only be academically oriented but also have a multi-faceted personality. So, I took vocal lessons in Nepal. I also started learning the Manipuri dance with Sushila Koirala. I went on to do Bharatnatyam in a full-fledged way. The foundation for dance was laid here.
How do you remember Sushila Koirala?
We used to idolise and worship her. She was a wonderful teacher and a warm person. One immediately felt attracted to her. As a teacher she was strict, but not unpleasant. She made it interesting, she inculcated the love of dance in me, and it stayed with me. She was strict to give me the discipline of dance without taking away the joy.
What did you like the most when you were in Kathmandu for the first time?
I loved the setting itself where we lived, the gardens, and the aloobakhara (plum). I loved this ambience of bhakti (devotion), the architecture, the ancient art, the brass statutes.
My father was quite a collector and picked up some very beautiful murtis, which I still have. To stay in a heritage city was something else. But those were the days when there was only one paved road, in front of the palace.
These were very early days in Nepal's development. We sort of got used to it. And of course, the Himalayas, the beauty of that is very dear to me. Then the songs and dance, the music of Nepal always stayed with me.
Could you describe your introduction to the Nepali language?
I knew (spoke) only Nepali till I was nine years old. It was only when I came back to India to go to school that my mother appointed a panditji to teach us Hindi.
This time when I came to Kathmandu I could understand 85 per cent of what was being said in Nepali. I can't speak Nepali anymore, but I can understand. Back in the days, I also used to act in Nepali folk plays.
How was your impression of Kathmandu this time?
I was there when Nepal didn't have paved roads. It was very charming in its own way. It had palaces, lovely houses, but also lots of greenery. It was not so built up. What struck me about Kathmandu in particular is how it has grown and expanded as an urban space. It is in the nature of evolution of cities that they get built up. But the old charm also remains. To see temples and stupas in every street corner is so beautiful. It makes one feel like being in a sacred space.
You have said your parents and your grandfather have inspired Swallowing the Sun. Can you share how they impacted you and the novel?
I am very proud to be the daughter and the granddaughter of people who were feminist, who believed in the power of women. One of the great things of being in Kathmandu is that this is the Shakti Bhumi (land of power). My parents believed in Naari Shakti and they empowered themselves and us as we grew up.
This novel traces the journey of my mother. It begins with a 11-year-old girl in a village in Maharashtra, India - her father decides that she and her sister will defy convention, and not get married at 11. This is going against child marriage, and child motherhood, which still are a problem both in Nepal and India. He defied that 100 years ago and said his daughters will go to an orphanage boarding school in Indore. From there the journey of empowerment begins.
The novel is set against the tumult and excitement of the (Indian) freedom movement and how they participated in it. It's also an epic love story - of my parents. This is fiction but it is very much inspired by their real life love story.
There were some 148 love letters that I found of my parents. I have run upon those letters and some of them are included in the in the novel.
My father was very poetic and I have inherited that poetic nature of his.
It is a novel about young people, for young people, and by young people. I have said it is very much about women's empowerment, but also that women can be and do anything. I show how women, as much as young men, ordinary women and ordinary men were heroes and sheroes of the freedom movement. Today as much as then, they can contribute to nation building. They should not think that somebody else will do it. They have to do it. So it's very much a message on that.
Why should Nepalis read your novel?
It is dedicated to someone who loved Nepal - my father and mother. I also have such a close bond with Nepal. Otherwise also, the novel is a bestseller and has been critically acclaimed.
What motivated you to debut as a novelist?
This was something that was swirling in my mind for decades because this story of my parents and their extraordinary lives was waiting to be written. I had started writing this novel when I was the ambassador in Budapest from 1999 to 2002. I wrote 100 pages and had a mental block. Then I told myself, 'I'm very busy with my children, my work'; somehow I kept postponing, till I returned to India 2018. My husband joined the government, I got busy with other things - settling down, helping my husband. I only got to write this when COVID-19 happened. I sat down and wrote for eight to 10 hours every day in 2020 and 2021 and finished the novel of 270,000 words by June of 2021. It was published in January this year as it took another two years to find a publisher.
Both my parents were very literary people. Although they did not write books, they loved reading, spoke in very literary language. So, I grew up loving literature and wanting to write, and here was the story waiting to be written.
How do you look back on your career?
I have been very privileged. I wanted to be a doctor. It was my father who made me take a U-turn and join diplomacy. I was the youngest entrant to join the Indian Foreign Service. I was 21, 22 after joining.
I look back with much satisfaction and gratitude that they gave me this opportunity to serve and represent my country in the best way that I could and also to convey the civilisational values that India represents.
As a woman and a feminist, my greatest joy was creating and building up this global organisation, UN Women.
In one of your interviews you have said that during the initial days of UN Women, you all used to say 'we need to preach the religion of gender equality'. What is this religion?
In Hinduism we have women goddesses, and we worship them. But when we actually look at women, we don't treat them as equal, some rather tend to look at women as the children of a lesser goddess. That dichotomy has to change. We have to recognise and reinterpret, and correctly interpret our respective religions to bring out the women-empowering, women-respecting aspects of it. In my novel I have drawn upon those elements. For instance, the Manusmriti says women should not be treated well, and that she must be under the rule of the father when she's a child and a girl, and she must be ruled by her husband when she's married, and then by son when she becomes a widow. But Manu also says, 'Yatra naryastu pujyante ramante tatra devata' (divinity blossoms there where women are honoured). We have to take that part as a new religion not the negative part which justifies violence, and discrimination against women. So, I meant we have to create a culture and religion of gender equality.
How would you suggest we understand the concept of feminism in the modern world?
For India and Nepal, I would say Naari Shakti, not feminism, because there might be an association with the western interpretation of it. It is not about putting men down, not about disrespecting mothers or housewives. Some of these elements are what causes some people to think, 'Oh, feminism is not for me'.
Gloria Steinem, who's a shero for me, and one of the pioneers of the feminist movement, described feminism very well: 'A feminist is someone who believes in the equality and humanity of both men and women'. So we are not trying to say that women are superior to men or men are superior to women. They are equal. And they are both human beings. How would you treat one human being differently from another? That is the idea of equality, gender equality and women's empowerment. Naari Shakti encapsulates that idea.
Anything else you would like to add?
I would like to emphasise that the ties between India and Nepal - the cultural, the civilisational, the people-to-people kinship ties, are indissoluble. Even if geopolitical forces want to do it, or political expediency dictates, they cannot be dissolved. It is an umbilical cord that is alive, that is still connected and still living. It is being nourished. We should not allow any of the other things in any way affect this very special relationship. We have such a multi-coloured, many-splendoured relationship, and this must be built up. We should get politics to follow this path rather than allow it to derail or dilute this relationship.
